Banning politics from the site is on its face nonsensical.

Gyro
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Piaow Birb!
The personal is political and from that everything becomes political. The existence of this site itself is a political statement that tells the world that it is okay to participate in this subculture that much of the rest the world sees as gross and undesirable, something to be hide, and much like any other coming out, it normalizes how people feel about things. It helps turn the esoteric into the mundane and thus breeds acceptance of our community in society, much like women's liberation, or LGBT movements of past and present.

It celebrates sex and says that it is natural and desirable, by being such a hub of so many different tastes, from gay, to straight, to unusual fetishes, something which our protestant society tells us is bad. Once again, this works to breed acceptance, and fostering acceptance on a societal level is a political act.

In many countries, including prominent ones like the US and Russia there are forces which are working at high levels to oppress the gay and transgender communities and yet here we stand as a beacon of acceptance against that tide.

Both Fleety and wingbeat have come out fully in support in Black lives matter, which of course they do and this is a human rights issue, but its also tied into policing and is a very prominent and contentious political matter in the us. Politics is a question of who gets what, when, and how, and its hard to consider any matter of importance without that question being involved.

In fact its very selective as to what is considered 'politics' on this site, which seems to boil down to anything we don't feel like discussing. Like for example, when I was discussing theories of change earlier, and the importance of voting to put forth your societal desires, that was shut down even though there wasnt even a mention, or any pressure on who anyone should vote for. Why are some topics privileged over others? Even mundane ones like the above?

The idea of 'banning politics' itself is political even, because it says that politics is dirty and should not be discussed, and we should distance ourselves from it. This is a terrible thing to teach people, especially as our generation is one of the least active ones…
Seraphiel
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@Gyro
Yeah. Thats one of the gripes i have with online communities all over. It seems the rules apply to some but not the other. Even worse, this growing double standard has become even more blatant that they arent even trying to hide it anymore. Everything seems to be skewing to one side. And one side seems to be more "acceptable" than the other.

What even is "politics" anymore?
Whenever i tried calling out people for being "too political" with their posts on certain subject matter. I keep getting told that "It IsN't a PoLiTiCaL mattur!!! Hurr durr" "Its HOOMAN ROIGHTS ISSUE! But whenever some topic i try to talk about that doesnt seem to explicitly wander ibto politics, just a little bit. "OMFG! TAKE IT TO TEH POOLITICAL THREADS!!!"
So it's "politics" when they say it is but isnt when they say it isnt? Especially stuff they happen to suspiciously disagree and agree with respectively?


Those who conveniently try to twist definitions to fit their whims and narratives are the worst. They have no principles.
Zuthal
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In the end, doing a blanket ban on "politics", besides the issues of almost guaranteed unqueal enforcement (there is no clear line for where something starts to become political) is simply cowardice. Cowardice of wanting to remove reactionaries (which is a good aim) without appearing to take a side — so you do a generic "politics bad guys" stance, or maybe a blanket "extremism bad", which ultimately just serves to excuse reactionary positions, by way of equating them morally with progressive ones.
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TexasUberAlles
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The original intent was "prohibit dumb nazi bullshit", but the nazis screamed and cried and threw a pissbaby temper tantrum so hard that it had to get expanded just to shut them the fuck up.
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It'd be really damn nice to have just one site on the internet that doesn't have a seedy corner of anger and angst for politics where users snipe and snide at eachother to grow everlasting grudges, nevermind it spilling over the rest of the place.

At least, please, for the next 3-4 months… just give us this little bit of respite and then you can all go back to bickering and spite.
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Gyro
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@TexasUberAlles
I mean, removing extremist reactionaries doesn't have to result in removing reasonable discussion altogether. If they throw a fit, ban them. We don't want nazis anyway.


@😾
Instead it'll be a Mish mash of trying to navigate what is 'too political' which really means, as shown above, whatever the site mods agree with (for example LGBT pride and blm). This is the equivalent position to just burying your head in the sand and ignoring core issues.
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Also I'd like to point out that no politics is not actually a site rule, even though the mods are enforcing it as if it was.
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Luna
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While banning any political discussion from the site is impossible, I'd very much prefer there to not be any political threads. Do you really need a yet another place to fling rocks at eachother over the politics of one country (USA)? To me as a non-american it does get quite tiring to always see the same stuff, the same names, the same politics discussed everywhere, while they don't even affect me in any way. Most political discussion threads that I've seen just collapse into an endless sea of hate, pointless arguments and just a general mess.

It's true that a ban cannot be absolute, it's okay to mention political subjects in the passing if it's appropriate to the conversation. This is not avoidable. But I'd personally like to avoid a yet another political discussion thread, we're an imageboard based around a fandom of anthropomorphic animals, not a forum that is supposed to deal with all real life issues. Real life sucks, let's just have a nice corner to escape to. Or is it absolutely obligatory to bring US political discussion everywhere?
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Gyro
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@Luna
But this forum does deal with real life issues. If nothing else it is obviously in support of LGBT rights, sex positivity, and furry acceptance. Just because you want to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean that the site doesn't inherently have political implications.

On top of that, it is entirely possible to have reasonable conversations on politics and political theory, US and otherwise. Also to say that US politics does not affect you in any way is laughable because at least in the realms of global warming, we are a major cause in what is a world wide catastrophe and are a rogue state avoiding our duties. If nothing else, that 100% has implications on you and will fully affect you during your lifetime.
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Litrojia
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ok this is lit
@Gyro
Just because you want to stick your head in the sand doesn't mean that the site doesn't inherently have political implications.

If literally everything is political, the term loses its meaning. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and even though that line can't be clearly defined and inevitably leads to controversial discrepancies, the result is more civil than allowing explicitly political discussion.

it is entirely possible to have reasonable conversations on politics and political theory

It is possible, but on a site where monitoring political discussion shouldn't be a staff priority, that can't be guaranteed. Regardless of political affiliation, discussions I've seen usually turn into either uncivil shouting matches or toxic echo chambers, and the accusations of mods unfairly enforcing rules wouldn't go away.

in the realms of global warming, we are a major cause in what is a world wide catastrophe and are a rogue state avoiding our duties. If nothing else, that 100% has implications on you and will fully affect you during your lifetime.

I agree that global warming is an extremely important issue. Many other political issues are important too. Just because someone sees a political topic as especially important doesn't mean it should be exempt from a politics ban.
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Gyro
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@Litrojia
Nah, everything being political doesn't actually make the word lose meaning, it just points out that everything is interlinked in the web of ideas and society. Every word, every concept has a definition, but that doesn't mean that as such definitions lose meaning. Its along the same lines of that. The question shifts from 'is this political?' to 'what are the political implications of this?' in the same way you dont ask 'does this have a definition' but rather 'what is the definition?'

I agree that global warming is an extremely important issue. Many other political issues are important too. Just because someone sees a political topic as especially important doesn't mean it should be exempt from a politics ban.

Glad to see you taking this entirely out of context. :V That was pointing out that US politics definitely has an impact on the rest of the world. Probably in multiple spheres, but that was the first one that came to mind that was 100% undeniable.

That said the accusations of mods unfairly enforcing the rules already exist. I already pointed out many ways that the mods have come down on one side of a political issue or another, and that's the law around here. BLM, LGBT Rights, Sex positivity. I mean I agree with all of these, but that doesnt mean that there already isnt unequal enforcement.
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Litrojia
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@Gyro
The question shifts from 'is this political?' to 'what are the political implications of this?' in the same way you dont ask 'does this have a definition' but rather 'what is the definition?'

If you want to look at it that way, that's fine. My point was that it's pointless to say that even many mundane things are political.

Glad to see you taking this entirely out of context. :V That was pointing out that US politics definitely has an impact on the rest of the world. Probably in multiple spheres, but that was the first one that came to mind that was 100% undeniable.

Though my point still stands, I admit I unintentionally took that point out of context.

In Luna's case, I can understand her frustration in being sick of seeing US politics everywhere on the internet despite not being American herself. Lots of websites kind of assume that their users are American (I recall recent messages from Discord encouraging everyone, even non-Americans, to vote). That being said, being sick of US-centric political discussion alone isn't great justification for disallowing political discussion.

That said the accusations of mods unfairly enforcing the rules already exist.

I know, and allowing political discussion would amplify that.

My main point here is that enforcing civil political discourse probably isn't worth the staff's time. If they think they could handle it, I wouldn't mind having a political containment thread to placate the people who feel obligated to talk about politics. Allowing political discussion anywhere on the site only really benefits those political few, while making the site less casual and more susceptible to controversy for everyone else (I am assuming here that most Furbooru users aren't too political).
Luna
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@Gyro
Gosh by your definition anything is politics. Me going to a girl's bathroom is a political statement, me buying beer is a political statement, me eating at mcdonalds is a political statement. Don't be ridiculous. I was obviously talking about specific stuff and specific issue, especially with US elections coming up. Don't blow all of this out of proportion and don't go to absolute extremes.

@Gyro
US politics are not an issue to literally anyone living in europe, we here mostly just follow it out of morbid curiousity due to how hard it is advertised everywhere on the internet and how unavoidable they are because there are just so many americans on the internet.

That being said, you do make a fair point. We will make it part of our rules that discussions that have high potential to cause flame wars (such as political threads) are not welcome.
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Gyro
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@Luna
Buying a beer is most certainly has political implications. Do you buy microbreweries or from large corporations? Is it an import? Are you supporting a local bar, or a chain restaurant or a grocery store? All of these have political implications to them in how they affect the sphere of who gets what, when, and how. Though you're probably not making conscious decisions about this, that doesn't mean that there wasn't politics that went into shaping your choice. Be it advertisement regulations, or food safety.

Bathrooms: Again, who gets what when and how. Mostly here it concerns the idea of how: Building codes and safety regulations, making sure the water that you wash your hands with is clean. All of these are the result of political decisions, based on science and such sure, but still political. Politics impacts literally every facet of life.

US politics are not an issue to literally anyone living in europe, we here mostly just follow it out of morbid curiousity due to how hard it is advertised everywhere on the internet and how unavoidable they are because there are just so many americans on the internet.


Ah I see, so the US involvement in say the united nations and their security council veto has no bearing on Europe what so ever. Greta Thumberg obviously wasnt European either, since she lobbied in our elections on behalf of fighting global warming nor any of your national leaders, who seek trade deals and other such treaties.

My point was that it's pointless to say that even many mundane things are political.

I'll grant that I probably should have said that everything, even mundane things, are impacted by politics. Thats probably a better way to put it, though because of that, many acts are also a political statement because of that.
Luna
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@Gyro
US has a highly bloated perception of how much it actually matters to the EU.
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@Luna
@Gyro
US has a highly bloated perception of how much it actually matters to the EU.

ftfy

oh no, politics


Anyway, please, I just want to get through these next few months with ONE site not having politics* somewhere. Every other art site or gaming site or even fucking gardening site has articles and threads and segues full of politics and it's maddening.


*The definition of "politics" being the one practically every reasonable person understands as, ie. that related formal legal policy and political parties. Miss me with that "tagging 'breath' is politics because you need fresh air to breath and that's affected by global warming which is affected by the US GOP stance on renewable energies".
Gyro
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@Luna
I mean yes, many Americans definitely see us as !!!GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!!! and so dont realize that our day to day policy generally doesnt affect the rest of the world too much more than other countries would affect us. I"m merely disputing that US politics has no bearing on you. The US's tendrils, for example have shaped most of the worlds drug policies through treaties we forced when we were much more influential. And we did drag europe into a mess in the middle east in recent history. Oh and dont forget that we sort of precipitated the global crash in 2007 (Though leveraging in other countries in the eurozone did magnify it as well.)
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Zuthal
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@Gyro
And that isn't even getting into all the (very negative) influence the US exerts, both by soft power and via the CIA, in the global south.
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