Posts

@Wingbeat  
Here you are, all pokemon on the site. We’ll deal with the others as species tags arise.
 
Tsareena -> animated plant  
lilligant -> animated plant  
eevee -> mammal  
Umbreon -> mammal  
glaceon -> mammal  
flareon -> mammal  
Jolteon -> mammal  
leafeon -> mammal  
espeon -> mammal  
sylveon -> mammal  
vaporeon -> mammal  
nickit -> mammal, fox, canine  
thievul -> mammal, fox, canine  
zeroara -> mammal  
Regigigas -> animated machine  
zeroara -> mammal, canine, jackal  
Pikachu -> mammal, rodent  
Sirfetch’d -> bird  
Zorua -> mammal, canine  
braixen -> mammal, canine, fox, fennec  
fennekin -> mammal, canine, fox, fennec  
arcanine -> mammal, canine, dog  
growlithe -> mammal, canine, dog  
gardevoir -> untagged  
latias -> untagged  
latios -> untagged  
Zoroark -> mammal  
Zangoose -> mongoose  
houndoom -> mammal, canine  
beedrill -> insect, arthropod, bee  
nikoking -> mammal  
stantler -> deer, cervid, mammal  
vespiquen -> insect, arthropod, bee  
typlosion -> mammal, mustelid  
drizzlie -> reptile, lizard  
rayquaza -> dragon, lindwurm  
houndour -> mammal, canine  
bulbasaur -> reptile  
squirtle -> reptile, turtle  
charmander -> reptile, dragon  
luxray -> mammal  
charizard -> dragon, western dragon  
dragonair -> dragon, wyrm  
serperior -> reptile, snake  
chikorita -> they’re modeled after sauropods, but that’s not apparent til later in the evolutionary line really. Chikorita might just stand alone. Or it might get the dinosaur tag. This one is less clear.  
delphox -> mammal, canine, fox, fennec  
meowstic -> mammal, feline, cat  
yveltal -> bird  
deoxys -> alien  
blaziken -> bird  
joktic -> arthropod, tick  
toucannon -> bird, toucan  
Riolu -> mammal, canine  
hatterene -> untagged  
torracat -> mammal, feline, cat  
brionne -> mammal, seal  
dartrix -> bird, owl  
buizel -> mammal, mustelid, otter  
gengar -> undead, ghost  
pansear -> mammal, monkey  
politoed -> frog, amphibian  
totadile -> reptile, crocodilian  
keldeo -> mammal, unicorn, equine  
alohan vulpix -> kitsune, fox, canine, mammal  
vulpix -> kitsune, fox, canine, mammal  
incineroar -> mammal, feline  
Suicune -> mammal  
midnight lycanroc -> mammal, werewolf, canine  
lycanroc -> mammal, canine  
midday lycanroc -> mammal, wolf, canine  
mega lopunny -> mammal, lagomorph  
lopunny -> mammal, lagomorph  
rockruff -> mammal, canine, dog  
klefki -> animated object  
nidoqueen -> mammal  
absol -> mammal  
mega absol -> mammal  
mightyena -> mammal, canine, hyena  
ninetails -> mammal, fox, kitsune  
dratini -> dragon, wyrm  
flygon -> dragon, western dragon  
grovyle -> dinosaur, raptor (we probably ought to really have theropod, that raptor -> to. That fits better)  
koffing -> untagged  
tropius -> dinosuar, sauropod  
alohan exeggutor -> animated plant  
alohan meowth -> mammal, feline, cat  
carvanha -> fish  
exeggutor -> animated plant  
feebas -> fish  
feralligator -> crocodilian, reptile  
horsea -> fish, seahorse  
hydreigon -> dragon, hydra  
snivy -> lizard, reptile  
raichu -> mammal, rodent  
wooper -> axolotl, amphibian  
Snorlax -> mammal  
sandygast -> animated object  
quilfish -> fish, pufferfish  
mudkip -> amphibian  
meowth -> feline, mammal, cat  
maril -> mammal  
magikarp -> fish, carp  
lugia -> bird (its got a beak) or Dragon maybe both, or neither. This is one of the weird edge cases.  
diglett -> mammal  
corsola -> fish, coral  
dusk lycanroc -> mammal, canine  
pancham -> panda, mammal, bear  
chespin -> mammal  
budew -> animated plant  
milotic -> wyrm, dragon  
vanillish -> animated object  
seviper -> snake, reptile  
noctowl -> bird, owl  
chinchou -> fish  
jellicent -> invertebrate, jellyfish  
trapinch -> invertebrate, insect  
spheal -> mammal, seal  
scraggy -> reptile, lizard  
cutiefly -> invertebrate, insect  
luvdisc -> fish  
finneon -> fish  
froakie -> frog, amphibian  
mew -> mammal  
swablu -> bird  
altaria -> bird  
Mega altaria-> bird  
shaymin -> mammal  
quilava -> mustelid, mammal  
grookey -> monkey, mammal  
persian (pokémon) -> mammal, cat, feline  
charmeleon -> reptile, dragon  
cinderace -> mammal, lagomorph  
inteleon -> reptile, lizard  
reuniclus -> untagged  
wooloo -> mammal, sheep  
salazzle -> reptile, lizard  
mewtwo -> mammal  
scorbunny -> mammal, lagomorph  
seaking -> fish  
gyrados -> dragon, sea serpent  
minccino -> mammal, rodent, chinchilla  
luxio -> mammal  
ponyta -> mammal, horse, equine  
paxhirisu -> mammal, rodent, squirrel  
pichu -> mammal, rodent  
aerodactyl -> dinosaur, pterodactyl  
tynamo -> fish  
fletchinder -> bird  
obstagoon -> mammal, mustelid, badger  
rapidash -> mammal, unicorn, equine  
corviknight -> bird, corvid  
ho-oh -> bird  
raboot -> mammal, lagomorph  
furret -> ferret, mammal, mustelid  
dewott -> mammal, mustelid, otter  
cyndiquil -> mammal, echidna, monotreme  
kirlia -> untagged  
floatsel -> mammal, mustelid, otter  
archeops -> dinosaur, theropod  
omanyte -> invertibrate, ammonite (maybe not needed unless we get others? idk how common ammonites are in the furry fandom)  
sheildon -> dinosaur, Ceratops  
noibat -> mammal, bat  
primarina -> mammal, seal  
bayleef -> dinosaur, sauropod  
gallade -> untagged  
salandit -> reptile, lizard  
fletchling -> bird  
tepig -> mammal, pig  
swellow -> bird, swallow  
torchic -> bird  
goodra -> dragon  
rattatta -> rodent, mammal  
Mimmikyu -> untagged  
pidgeotto -> bird  
pidgeot -> bird  
pidgey -> bird, sparrow, rock sparrow  
azumarill -> mammal  
arbok -> snake, reptile  
cofagrigus -> animated object
 

 
Additionally  
raptor -> theropod  
crocodile -> crocodilian  
alligator -> crocodilian  
chinchilla -> rodent  
squirrel -> rodent  
Feridae -> original species, mammal

Okay to summarize in a compact easy to understand on the agreements so far;
 
Species Supertags, avian, scalie and so on are likely better to be nuked.
 
‘Artificial species’ tag is likely applicable, could be brought together with ‘original species’.
 
Pokémon species (and alike) may imply irl animals/families if they are unquestionably suitable for it.
 
Is that it?

Rather than constantly reiterating points trying to convince each other to change their minds, I suggest taking the time to make lists of the various tags you wish applied to pokemon, and the specific pokemon that would fall under that tag. All of them.
 
I would not get your hopes up that the tags will be implied because I’m with LB on this, but that legwork will help in creating an alternative solution.

@Donin
 
I’m aware, I just wanted to make it clear that “oh, having a way to grab all the avian pokemon would be super great.” as an end user. Which, based on the following comment by LightningBolt:
 

 
So I’ll be the person chime to say that this would be great to have from a user perspective.
 
 
I think long term you’ll also have problems as new users join the site if you don’t have implications for these things. So, I’d go against LightningBolt’s argument here. I’m not sure I agree with their argument at all for not doing the implication. I can think of good reasons why you don’t want an implication, but I believe that “too much arguing about it” is a poor reason.
 
But that’s just my humble opinion.

i probably missed a lot but whatever
 
no one is saying you can’t tag a species tag on pokemon images, all that is being said is that it won’t be an implication.

I’m just going to weigh in on this because I’ve been forwarded by a friend, since I’m likely going to stick around the site for a few years (if the mods let me :P).
 
My opinion exactly mirrors CruFox’s here. Especially:
 
 

 
If it looks like a bird, it should be labelled as a bird. That’s just useful, as an end user of the site. Arguments happen, debates happen, but it’s still fundamentally useful. I would argue the goal should be to make life easy for the primary users of the site. If you need to auto lock arguments about whether pidgey is a bird or a scalie, that’s your prerogative.
 
But personally, it’s correct that Eeevee is a mammal, and Pidgey is a bird. Arguing they shouldn’t be seems… crazy to me personally.

Casual discrimination is still discrimination. Your policy makes things harder to find, even if that’s not the intention. It is indeed the effect of the policy, which is discriminatory and specieist towards those within the pokemon community, and those who have pokemon OCs.
 
You are right now just not wanting to give in to an argument that is perfectly reasonable because at this point you’d be admitting you are wrong. I’m sorry you’re wrong. I know it sucks realizing you’re wrong, and so you put your foot down harder and scream into the void with your flashing text, but pronouncing your speciesism to the world does not make it more right.

@LightningBolt  

 

 
:P
 
IMO if a pokemon looks like a bird it should be a bird and when it doesn’t look like anything it should be just a pokemon.
 
If we defined bird as a creature with two legs, wings, feathers and a beak (and also applicable for hybrids so that gryphon gets this tag) then it would be a bird.
 
If we defined a mammal as a creature with fur or soft, dry skin (like humans, hairless cats, naked mole-rats), then eevee would be a mammal, it has fur:  

 
In the cases where it’s not clear in their canon form, don’t imply it.
 
If someone draws eevee as not having fur or pidgey as not having feathers or a beak, delete the tag in the same way the “pony” tag gets deleted on unicorns and pegasi that look like full-sized horses and not MLP ponies.

@LightningBolt  

 
mammal, mammal, mammal, Untagged, untagged, untagged, ghost or Undead- depending on broadness desired, untagged.
 
That was harrrddd! /sarcastic
 
You’re misrepresenting the argument to say that all pokemon have to be tagged with an impliaction. If there’s nothing that it represents, then it just is. This is the perfectionist fallacy at its core.

@LightningBolt  
Me, I’m complaining that its practically impossible for me to watch bird pokemon, because sorting through 900+ species is difficult, along with say neopets, or digimon, or w/e YOU decide doesnt get tags.

[bq]

Only if it’s things like tagging eevee with ‘canine’ or other unidentifiable pokemon.

This is not e621. We can and do have different rules.

here’s a question back, why do you need to? Why would anyone need to? tags cannot do EVERYTHING perfectly.

Wingbeat did not agree. The fight is happening because you ignored my original statement and want to argue when there is no reason to.

No, it’s a Pidgey, it’s based off birds but it in itself is not a ‘bird’.

here’s a thought, why does any of this matter right now? Who was complaining that they couldn’t find all the bird pokemon with one tag? No one.

Let things be organic, just let pokemon species imply pokemon and nintendo and if issues in the future crop up from that, then it van be tackled.

There is no reason to argue or debate this right now.

I don’t care about ‘but it makes sense’ it also makes sense for me to tag every image that isn’t tagged as traditional art as digital art, but does anyone care or need that? No.

This debate is done.

@LightningBolt  
So then yes or no, if I tag pokemon with their irl species counterpart across the site I would have moderator action taken against me? You’re avoiding that question.
 
If everyone ignored it on E621, that means the population does not agree with you.
 
As it stands, please, tell me how I can search for every avianlike pokemon on the site without having to chain all their ‘character tags’ together? Because we dont enforce implications, even though as you said before, if it would be 95+% of the case, it should be implicated, then there is a large portion of art that will go undertagged without having the ‘bird’ added.
 
Perhaps the reason fights like this are happening, is that people realize that many, not all, pokemon fall into typical categorization schemes. Hell Cru, and Fleetfoot agree with me that certain pokemon deserve the bird tag. You’re the one being super stubborn on this issue that is pretty clear on its face.
 
Just answer these questions:  
Would you tag a normal pidgey a bird? Would the general populace, if presented with a pidgey call it a bird? Would pidgey be a normal pidgey in 95% of cases?

@Gyro  
You are combining two related scenarios that popped up at once.
 
I have nothing against Pokemon, I like Pokemon, a lot. But I wanted to avoid pointless nitpicking and tag debates (like this) by nipping it in the bud BEFORE any got started, and that already failed.
 
Rainbow Dash told me that e621 used to have this same rule but everyone ignored it.
 
I don’t even really like you or anyone tagging IRL species on them, but I figured that would be a good compromise to let ‘you’ get what you want and not disrupt implications, yet you STILL want to keep disrupting them despite two mods telling you not to.

@LightningBolt  
but the discussion previously, in discord, was wrt tagging pokemon as their irl species counterpart. So it has been discussed then is what you’re saying, and I”m misinterpreting things?
 
Great, then I guess there is nothing at odds with making sure pokemon ahve their proper species tag on images.
 
I dont understand what you personally have against pokemon so much that you’re on a crusade to reduce their visiblity on site by making them impossible to search for. If I particularly like bird pokemon, there’s no way for me to see them, outside of chaining every tag together under your lets not implicate them scheme.

@Gyro  
[bq=”Gyro”] @LightningBolt

@LightningBolt  

 
@LightningBolt  

 
I feel like I’m being gaslit here because you also previously said we could tag pokemon as whatever we thought they were. But here you’re saying if we go and tag pokemon what we think they are, thats bad. Like two sides of the mouth here. You’re being incredibly inconsistent.
 
 
@LightningBolt  

 
Wait wait, so if it resembles a sergal, then why do he have Sergal -> mammal?  
What if we snakeify a sergal but it resembles enough of a Sergal, it’d stop being a mammal at that point.
 
Though catgirl does not imply cat.
 

 
Wait how are they a character tag? That makes literally no sense given that pokemon are a dime a dozen in the games, show, manga, etc. There are 1000 different pikachu, or rattata or w/e.
 
If you really wanna have a tag that’s pokemon as a character, then add a character tag to them as well. But as it stands, they are a species in pretty much any incarnation. You could have ash’s pikachu and that is a character. But random pikachu is random pikachu, like random blue jay is random bluejay.

@Gyro  
Yes, if it continues without listening to staff someone can and will get stopped. tag vandalism isn’t just removing good tags or adding garbage, it can also apply to mass-adding tags no one discussed or agreed to yet.
 
Pokemon are a difefrent breed to other animals. They are not comparable, and it is why I am separating them.
 
If it still resembles a sergal in some cosmetic ways, yes.
 
That humanized Serperior is wearing clothes that resemble a Serperior, so it is still tagged Serperior.
 
Think of Pokemon as like species/character tags in one.
 
A character wearing a Sonic The Hedgehog costume is not Sonic, but it still gets tagged with him because of the costume. A human wearing Serperior clothes, or a Pony or a Fox or a Bird wearing a Serperior themes scarf still gets tagged Serperior.

@LightningBolt  
A mod saying ‘you will get shut down’ seems to imply some sort of moderation action. And that context was literally with tagging species on pokemon, like bird and the like.
 
But you still havnt responded to your own words re: the vast majority of an implication being correct.
 
Also tell me, does a humanized sergal still get tagged sergal?

@Anonymous #B1D2  

 
Also, LB has threatened to ban anyone who attempts to be helpful adding species tags to pokemon if they dont have implications. So they’re kinda talking out of both sides of their mouth here.
 

@Anonymous #B1D2  
the problem is by not implying the greater tag, it means that it will not show up for the majority of people who are after such content. If there’s an extranious tag, its much easier to catch and remove. If a tag is missing, it will not show up for people who might be inclined to fix said tag.
 
Also “Pokemon, species swap” its not gonna be that big of a category tbh. Especially pokemon, humanized.
 
Costumes have been tagged as species before, but if I put on a bluejay costume, that bluejay tag will imply bird as well.  
With that sort of logic, nothing should ever have an implication, because there are always edge cases.

A humanized serperior is not a serperior, anymore than a humanized cat is a cat. Same goes for any of the other pokemon. THey are at that point species swaps.

@LightningBolt  
I agree with you; if the picture shows the Pokemon as a human, tag it human. If it shows up as a bird, tag it “bird”. If people forget to tag human/bird/pony/rabbit, then add it for them. Implying it would make a mess of things for species swap.
 
@Gyro  
How would anyone find specific Pokemon species swaps if you won’t tag them the species? How about costumes:  
 
In this case, are you saying it should not be tagged “bulbasaur” and “squirtle” because “they are not there”?
 
Can someone please do the following implications?  
arbok -> pokémon  
cofagrigus -> pokémon  
emboar -> pokémon  
weavile -> pokémon  
yamask -> pokémon  
I am uncertain if the character on the left is a Pokemon:  

Would you look at that, Pokemon can be turned into other species or shapes and still be the same Pokemon but may not still be the original assumed family.
 

 
Please treat them like character tags as people can change how a Pokemon looks and it may not be consistent with the canon look.  
ie, a humanized Serperior, it is no longer a scalie if it ever was.  

ash’s pikachu (pokemon) -alias> ash’s picachu (pokémon) -> pokémon  
Detective Pikachu (detective picachu) -> detective pikachu, pokémon