The Horrific Consequences of The War On Drugs (Discussion)

I don’t usually watch crime shows (or TV at all really), but I watched an episode of a show called “The First 48” at my grandma’s today. It’s an IRL on-the-scene murder mystery show.
 
The episode was like others I’ve seen. Somebody got shot, and the cops have to come pick up the pieces and talk to heartbroken friends, family, and bystanders to find out who did it. This one stood out, though, because every single person, most of which were interviewed independently of each other, spoke about how nice, caring, and full of integrity the victim was. They said he he had a bright future.
 
Long story short, he was a 20 year old who sold some weed on the side and some guys who barely knew him robbed him and killed him for a few joints and $150 when they were jonesing for a toke.
 
It was a heartbreaking episode and a good example of the reasons I usually stay away from this kind of content. However, one thing to me stood out that almost nobody ever talks about with these shows…
 
None of this would’ve ever happened if there wasn’t a war on drugs.
 
This happened because some thugs thought they could get away with an easy score on an easy target from a scawny dude selling weed. He wouldn’t be selling weed in the first place if it was legal. It’s disgusting how we criminalize these people. We should be putting them in treatment when they are a danger to themselves or others, and leaving them be if they aren’t.
 
Even if you don’t believe in decriminalizing drugs, you have to look at the facts. There are so many horrific consequences of the war on drugs.
 
Far too many to list right now in one post. I can give more talking points or site some studies and hard facts later if someone wants, but as it is I just wanted to start this conversation.
 
Now I know a lot of people out there think about this stuff like I do, and I’m not alone… but it’s lonely being the only one I personally know that  
connects the dots and thinks so passionately about these types of things. This kinda stuff keeps me up at night. It really does. And I just need to get it out sometimes…
 
So if anyone has anything productive to add to the conversation, please do.

Just stop doing drugs, problem solved.

@darkdoomer  
Tell that to people who grow up literally addicted in the womb or people who grew up in a family or culture that values drugs and never knew there was another way to live to begin with.
 
Also, did you know that addictions are actually neuroligical, pathological problems in the brain that can be seen with PET scans? Sheer willpower alone is not enough to “just stop doing drugs.” There are treatments and techniques that must must be mastered in order to beat an addiction.
 
The addicted human brain: insights from imaging studies
 
“Imaging studies have revealed neurochemical and functional changes in the brains of drug-addicted subjects that provide new insights into the mechanisms underlying addiction. Neurochemical studies have shown that large and fast increases in dopamine are associated with the reinforcing effects of drugs of abuse, but also that after chronic drug abuse and during withdrawal, brain dopamine function is markedly decreased and these decreases are associated with dysfunction of prefrontal regions (including orbitofrontal cortex and cingulate gyrus). The changes in brain dopamine function are likely to result in decreased sensitivity to natural reinforcers since dopamine also mediates the reinforcing effects of natural reinforcers and on disruption of frontal cortical functions, such as inhibitory control and salience attribution. Functional imaging studies have shown that during drug intoxication, or during craving, these frontal regions become activated as part of a complex pattern that includes brain circuits involved with reward (nucleus accumbens), motivation (orbitofrontal cortex), memory (amygdala and hippocampus), and cognitive control (prefrontal cortex and cingulate gyrus). Here, we integrate these findings and propose a model that attempts to explain the loss of control and compulsive drug intake that characterize addiction. Specifically, we propose that in drug addiction the value of the drug and drug-related stimuli is enhanced at the expense of other reinforcers. This is a consequence of conditioned learning and of the resetting of reward thresholds as an adaptation to the high levels of stimulation induced by drugs of abuse. In this model, during exposure to the drug or drug-related cues, the memory of the expected reward results in overactivation of the reward and motivation circuits while decreasing the activity in the cognitive control circuit. This contributes to an inability to inhibit the drive to seek and consume the drug and results in compulsive drug intake. This model has implications for therapy, for it suggests a multi-prong approach that targets strategies to decrease the rewarding properties of drugs, to enhance the rewarding properties of alternative reinforcers, to interfere with conditioned-learned associations, and to strengthen cognitive control in the treatment of drug addiction.”
 
 
Tl;dr: It’s not that simple, and it helps no one to be reductive. A culture that fosters anti-science mindsets is incredibly short-sighted. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. To Reduce the socioeconomic problems and illnesses both drugs and the war on drugs have caused our society to “just stop doing drugs, that simple” is to deny millions of people their humanity and is a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation we are all in.

@OliverHancock  
Nice wall of text but it goes in the trash. Drug dealers should be shot on sight.

@darkdoomer  
That’s disgusting and dangerous. That is exactly the mentality that is destroying this country. People who think like that are only escalating the situation and furthering our path to collapse. Put yourself in others’ shoes. If you can dehumanize them like that, you give them reason to do the same to you.

@darkdoomer  
I started this thread not for an echo chamber, but for productive discussion. I understand that others have differing opinions to my own and I want to hear those as well… However, violence and blind dismissal of others’ perspectives, without any facts or reasoning to back it up, is not productive.

@OliverHancock  
I don’t give a fuck about your country, I’m just telling there’s a simple solution : Kill drug dealers.  
Or at least make them have a bad day, Russian cops are very efficient at that.
 
@OliverHancock  
Don’t care about your moral high grounds, you want a solution? You have it. Drug ruins lives, kill the dealers, and stop reading bullshit articles.  
Zero source, zero evidence or scientific accuracy, it’s a pile of dung for cretins who want an excuse to shout «drugs cool, cops bad!»

@darkdoomer  
So where would you draw the line? A 17 year old sells some marijuana to a friend? An accomplished and charitable middle aged man whose fallen on hard times makes a mistake and sells a few drugs to pay for his healthcare? It’s a slippery slope, not to mention incredibly inhumane.
 
Also, do you realize that, if we started “just killing drug dealers”, so many more people who do not agree with you would start escalating violence with police, federal agents, and neighbors?

@OliverHancock  
I don’t draw any line. If you know you’re gonna get killed you will not deal any drug. 3/4 of the world have this policy. Not enforced here because retards believe in human rights. Or that giving criminals a chance to continue makes them human.  
What’s next? Legalize pedophilia and zoophilia? Pardon murderers?  
Why doing that when one thing existed and worked for a long time? Use more gun.

@darkdoomer  
Well, I certainly don’t believe that. I think a lot of drugs are pretty terrible, legal or otherwise. I also respect the police who protect and serve our communities. There are bad ones and there are polices from lawmakers and departments that I strongly disagree with… But I believe there are also really good people on all sides of this issue.

Let’s chill and remember Rule #0:
 

@OliverHancock  

 
No. Drug dealers are just like pedos or recidivists for violent crimes or murderers. A bullet, case closed.  
There’s no other solution, this is not a care bears world.

@darkdoomer
 
@OliverHancock
 
Hey there you two!
 
There’s nothing wrong in having a healthy discussion, we just kindly remind both parties to remember Rule #0 - Be excellent to one another.
 
These political related discussions can often heat up plenty, so it’s important to take a deep breath before making your argument and go easy with profanity.
 
We appreciate the comprehension.
 
Cheers!

@Fleetfoot  
Sorry Nope. I still don’t support the idea to surrendering to criminals. Here’s my point of view. Want diversity of opinions, you have it.

@Fleetfoot  
Thanks. :)
 
 
@darkdoomer
 
This is anecdotal, but I’d like to point out that a good friend of mine used to deal marijuana. He has a job and is a kind and valued member of his community. Just putting “a bullet” in him would’ve been outrageous, and we would’ve lost a bright young mind. He also was not the type back then to think he could’ve gotten caught by the legal system. In fact, studies show that harsher sentences do not deter crime in the first place.
 
Anywho, I think Fleetfoot made a good suggestion by encouraging us to “take a breather.” I know I often have difficulty maintaining a sound mind if I get caught up in the moment with things like these, so I’ll be back at a later date, hopefully among others who have more rational and productive discourse. Peace. ~

@OliverHancock  
Drugs are illegal for a reason.  
Damn I’m really going to the formation for the gendarmerie and give up my career on IT/graphic design.

 
This only includes the federal budget. The actual total cost including state and local government spending and costs to society is at least a few times that high.
 
How Much of Your Money Is Wasted in the War on Drugs
 
Of course, this kind of money still pales in comparison to the egregious robbing of the taxpayers to bailout the rich, but that’s another matter.

@OliverHancock  
Yep, see? investing in ammunition would make it cheaper. And a definitive solution.

@darkdoomer  

 
Just sayin’, this was me tonight for over 5 hours in the sweltering heat, wearing NIJ level IIIA steel plate body armor in a cheap, function-over-comfort carrier, semi-concealed between 2 shirts.
 
I’m the guy on the right thanking the police.
 

 
I was also out there for 2 and a half hours of that time by myself, reminding everyone, police or not, that despite our bold and determined calls for change, we appreciate the majority of police who are just trying to do a tough job as well as they can.
 

 

 
I agree with certain aspects of the protests and disagree with others, and that’s really not what this thread is about, so I won’t bring that topic up at all again. I just wanted to show that most people, myself included, are not trying to make excuses to say drugs are good and police are bad.

Drug should be legal is lost war like the alcohol prohibition human

@Anonymous #3FE9  
Yeah. I feel we would have a lot fewer problems if encouraged people to voluntarily not use drugs for recreational purposes (other than responsible use of weed), but if we make them decriminalized and perhaps have dispensories for a couple (like at least Mary Jane) then we would take a lot of power away from the criminals and be better for everyone.

The drug war is just an excuse to put as many people into cages as possible. Gotta keep that prison-industrial complex going, after all.

@Goku Black  
I thought it was funny that the reason the UK blocked extradition orders of Julian Assange to the US the other day was not because he’s innocent and all he did was whistleblowing journalism, but because our prison system is so horrible they said it would be cruel and inhumane to send him here.